Chin-Ning: After I graduated in 1967 at the age of 20, I worked for the US Navy based in Tainan, Taiwan, and that was where I met my husband, Gary. He was a young American kid who had served in the Vietnam War. When he got a transfer back to the US, I decided to marry him because I would lose face if I was left behind. My father was very mad because he disliked Americans. Actually I wasn't very sure if I should marry him but since my father was so furious. I was certain I had to marry him.

CN: The turning point in my life was my divorce. Gary was not very supportive. He only saw me as the woman he had married and nothing else. It was painful but I knew I didn't want to be with my husband anymore. He moved to the east when he got a job at the Chicago Exchange and I stayed behind to sell the house. I met an actor and for a while I lost my head. But actually he was only the catalyst in our divorce. It was a learning experience. I began to question what my life was all about. Sometimes, pain wakes you up. When life is good, you are in blissful ignorance. When something bad happens to you, personally or professionally, then you start to examine your life. It was a confusing and painful period. I was riddled with self-doubt and uncertainties. I was a virgin when I married and so was my husband. When the marriage ended, I started to question my sexuality. I felt so miserable then. I thought even a bad marriage was better than no marriage. I have learned how to live with myself. I have gained a sense of who I am instead of being an extension of someone else, a Mrs. So-and-so. I tried to find out what life was about as a Chinese and a Catholic in a foreign land.

CN: My second husband. Curt, is the one who saw the potential in me. He was the one who told me to write books. He imparts his vision to me. When I finished my first book, he said I should be on CNN. He called them and I was invited to appear on the show. He was also the one who got me on the Larry King show. He is a very positive influence on me. I am fortunate to have Curt. I can be totally unreasonable and I know he will still be there for me.

CN: He saw me in a dream 10 years before we met. In his dream, I was wearing a pair of Wrangler jeans and a blue top. I really did have those clothes then. He had never dated Asian women before. He then moved to San Francisco's Chinatown to live in order to find me. So when he first saw me, he recognized me, but I didn't know who he was. I ignored him for over a year because I was involved with an actor, but he was persistent because he knew we were fated to be together.

MC: That sounds really romantic.

CN: Well, it does but I find that romance alone does not a relationship make. A relationship should be based on common goals that both parties share. According to some scientific studies, romance is merely a matter of chemistry that scientists are trying to duplicate in the lab. It doesn't last for more than a couple of years. What are you going to do then?

MC: Do women tend to have more unrealistic expectations of romance?

CN: Yes. Absolutely! Women tend to carry images that were picked up from novels and movies as to what romance is. They want expensive gifts and candlelit dinners but most men don't even know or care about it. Women can't understand why their men can't surprise them with a long-stemmed rose or a gift. In America, the men's idea of a good time is sitting around and watching a football game. Men and women have different expectations. Most women have "a head full of trashy dreams". We are conditioned from young to think that way. We get more realistic as we grow older.

CN: Technically, I am not married to Curt. We have lived together for the past 16 years. As we don't have children. I don't find it necessary to have that license.

MC: Does that make you feel insecure, knowing he can leave you anytime?

CN: No. In fact the opposite is true. Knowing that your husband or wife can't walk out on you so easily, you tend to take each other more for granted. Also I am very secure about my position in his life. It is my decision whether or not I want to be married. I always have that choice. I just don't find the need for it. He is very good for me. We make up for each other's shortcomings. We have a strong bond. I can call Curt from anywhere in the world and he will be there for me. I suppose you could call it romantic but in a more sophisticated way. It is a very good partnership. The truth is, I am a very practical person although there is a part of me that is romantic too. What's more important than a Prince Charming is someone who has substance and who will make a good partner. Our relationship works because he is very useful to me. He contributes to my life. The truth is that if your relationship with a man is such that you don't contribute to each other's lives, you wouldn't stay together. Ultimately, we all live for ourselves. If someone can make us feel good about ourselves, we like that person. If you can do that, then you fulfill a purpose in my life.

CN: Oh no, it is not. Read the book, The Utility Value. It says that all people have to be useful to one another. Even a mother and child relationship is based on that. People always think that mothers are unconditional in their love. That's not true because mothers feel good about themselves in return. When you give, you feel good and selfless.

CN: As entrepreneurs, we are constantly thinking about work, so it is no different whether we are at home or in the office. I enjoy working with him. He takes care of the business side of things while I do the creative work, like writing books and giving lectures. It is a good partnership. However, that does not mean we do not fight. Little things can irritate, but we have more than romance to fall back on. We have a common objective, that is, we want our business to do well and we have a message we want to share with the world. It makes the daily annoyances easier to deal with.

CN: I don't find it more difficult to work with my husband. We are more willing to tell each other the truth, even if it is ugly. With a stranger, you are afraid to hurt their feelings. It is all right to have disagreements. In fact it makes for a stronger relationship if it can survive both personal and business differences.

CN: My parents gave me contradictory messages. My father always says, "If you are not working, then you must go to school, in order to keep in touch with society and not get left behind." On the other hand, when my parent's lives didn't go right, they would beat us up. I am the eldest daughter and I had to bear the brunt of their anger. My parents come from Northern China and they themselves are victims of child abuse, both physical and emotional. I never thought it was wrong of my parents to physically and mentally beat me up. I think a lot of my creativity came about because I had them for my parents. I became very strong and creative because the abuse stirred up a lot of emotions. After my divorce, I started to question my life and I have begun to see that not all my parents' ways were right.

CN: I had to go through a great deal of self-healing. Curt has been very helpful. He became my best friend, father and mother. He knows I need to be reassured and loved. I finally realized that some one can be nice to me. My parents do love me but they do not know how to express it in a way that I feel nurtured. Human beings need to receive love.

It was a long transition period and it didn't happen overnight. I had to slowly chip at my negativity, hurts and insecurities and peel it away layer by layer.